Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A (BECKY): Kia Ora and welcome to The Whole Tooth Ao/ NZ, the show that is made by oral health professionals for oral health professionals. We will bring you the kaupapa of the oral health profession in Aotearoa to investigate the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the truth.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: The Whole Tooth Aotearoa/NZ is sponsored by the Clare Foundation.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Kia Ora tātou Oral Health Professional whānau. We're here in my kitchen lounge today with Dr. Niamh Hammond. She is a dear friend of mine. We've had so many deep and meaningful conversations and ate a lot of biscuits. However, today we want to come together to have a little chat during Mental Health Awareness Week because both of us have had ups, downs, breakthroughs learnings that I think you, my dear audience, would actually enjoy.
So, Niamh, I'll let you start off with a bit about you, so the audience can get a feel for who you are. And no pressure, but we'll be sipping our tea and we'll be eating our biscuits, so don't worry about the slurping and the crunching.
But Niamh, welcome to you, my love.
[00:01:16] Speaker C (NIAMH): We're just saying that we're all a bit unknowable. So I'm not sure how I'm going to capture who I am all in the space of 30 seconds. But I guess the major puzzle pieces are I work in conventional medicine, I'm currently an Ed registrar at Waikato Hospital, and that's about as chaotic as it sounds. I think we've been all over the news in recent weeks to months, so we won't dwell on that one. So that's one part. And then I guess the horse riding puzzle piece is another part of it too. But I think the horse part goes so much further than just the riding. It's taught me so much about life and about how to be a better person and a better doctor. So it all comes together. But, yes, I have a deep interest in what it means to be well, mentally as well as physically, and how I think in my conventional world at work, we are quite limited in our definitions of wellness and what we think is helpful and not so helpful. And I've gone down various rabbit holes at various points in time and read all there is to read about. Well, this buz phrase of trauma that comes up an awful lot, and a pursuit of what it means to be whole.
[00:02:29] Speaker A (BECKY): Because I think as human beings, I mean, we'll get into human beings that decide to be healthcare workers. That's another kettle of fish, however.
[00:02:38] Speaker C: Strange bunch, I tell you.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Well, I think we have commonalities and our personalities that we desire to help, to heal, to look for solutions. And as we're doing this for our patients or our people, we sometimes forget to care for self as we're so busy looking after everyone else.
So, yeah, we're looking at, Niamh and I just had a quick squiz at the Mental Health Awareness Week suggestions.
The ngā e rima the five ways, five days to improve your mental health and well being. And we have discussed, yes, lists are great things to give you direction and focus. However, this might be an absolutely overwhelming set of five things, or it might just be so complex that you're like, how am I actually going to bring this into my day when I'm so busy and I'm so tired and I've got kids and I've got sleepless nights.
Yeah, I think that I've learned a few things in the last few years about myself and how I can function as a better person, because I, too, have been going on a journey looking at, what are we striving for?
Who is the whole Rebecca Mary Ahmadi? Why does it feel like I'm on this Earth? Maybe it's a midlife crisis. I turned 45 recently, still feel like I'm 21 in my head.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: Let's not talk about age.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: No.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Going on 30 next month.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: You're still such a young thing. But, yeah, I think that the things I've learned from Niamh have really progressed my mental health journey, but also my well being journey. And I think that there's some gems in there that we will get from today, just from our core at all.
[00:04:29] Speaker C: Well, that goes both ways, doesn't it? We've certainly learned a lot from you. I think it's a mutual growth process. I think that's one of the most important messages is we can't do this alone.
Human beings are designed for connection. And that's one of the five items on this list that I'm looking at.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the connect one says, Talk and listen. Be there, feel connected. I think they might actually, just even though it's day four of the task list, that's probably the main conversation that we have about being there, being present, being aware, training that brain to do what it needs to do for us, rather than that brain being pushed. And in the ebb and flow of life, the chaos of the ED, the rush of the noisy dental clinic, the rush of noisy houses with kids, that sometimes it's very difficult just to be present, be still.
And mindfulness for me has gone from being a, oh, this is interesting and new, to, oh, this is a horrific task that I have to have a go at to, oh, okay, maybe there's other ways of being mindful than sitting still and trying to calm your frantic brain.
[00:05:45] Speaker C (NIAMH): That's right, yeah. I think we get quite fixed about what quote unquote meditation or mindfulness has to look like that you have to be sat on the floor cross legged. And actually, I found in my hardest times, that was probably the worst thing to do because it meant that I was suddenly opening myself up to this internal storm and a teacup. And actually, I felt better resourced to be present with myself when I was engaged in some activity, whether it was walking or cooking or baking or horse riding? Well, yes, I think there's a lot of pressure to do the right thing, quote, unquote, from those who talk about meditation, to try and show up fully for ourselves. But if we've never done that before, I think it can be quite overwhelming.
There's a lot there what they can be.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And especially if you've got 100 miles an hour brain, it's quite overwhelming to just acknowledge those thoughts and then just let them float away because they're all banging into each other. So, yeah, I prefer the act of mindfulness or meditation or doing it on the going for a walk, going for a talk, going for a swim.
[00:06:58] Speaker C: I think it's whatever gets your foot in the door. Remember, it all of peace. Yeah. And maybe in the end, that'll look like being able to sit on the floor cross legged and levitating. But we can't start there.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not that quite highly evolved yet, and I don't know if I've shared this with listeners yet, but I have struggled with not that I knew till a few years ago anxiety for most of my life, and it's been quite a few years trying to undo some of those ways of being and doing.
Of course, being a highly functional human being has its perks, but over time, that gets to an absolutely exhausted human being. And I was getting sick and I was getting really tired and I was trying to parent and it was just too much. And it got to a point where I thought, actually, maybe I need some help with how I'm feeling and going to see my GP. She was great, had a few appointments just to chat and she decided, perhaps we should start on some antianxiety medication. And I was like, I don't need medication, I'm a strong human being.
But my body was telling me otherwise with exhaustion and the illness and unwellness, and just I was forgetting things on the regular and yeah. So just starting to take that anxiety medication, probably after the first few months, I started to realize that I was aware of my anxiety. And I was like, ah, is this what my brain does or my body does when I think, oh, I've got a job to do? Or, oh, I've got to speak in public?
And, yeah, that's been about a three year journey of now coming to a point of harnessing that anxiety a little bit, and it's been a long journey, but knowing what to do when I feel a certain way, as opposed to just letting that feeling or that physical feeling override and take over your day.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I do think there is a role for medication and that it opens up a bit of space to breathe. That was definitely the case when I started an antidepressant. It was quite some years ago. I've been trying to get off it ever since, but that's a whole other whole other can of worms but I think at the time, I wasn't in the place to do the work that I needed to do and I needed to feel that things that the walls weren't closing in quite so much. And I did feel like I could breathe a bit better and there was a bit more space for reflection and awareness and being able to move forward. And it's the years since then that I've really done a deep dive into why my nervous system behaves the way it does and how I might go about rewiring my brain. Essentially, I think we all have our stuff to work through and there are times in life when it's the right time and there are times when it's not. So, yeah, it caught up with me later and it was one of the most difficult things I've ever done. But it's been worth it in spades.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I guess we're at a point in time where we can reflect back on the work we've done yes. And that we can say some things worked, some things didn't, but we feel that we're successful human beings at this point, and that must be a you know, we've been also thinking about this.
Neve was telling me she's just been to a horse conference, which I thought, you take your pet horse along and you learn some sweet skills.
It was more about maybe you can explain it, but I'd love to hear that little bit you told me about how horses play a role in your well being and your journey to health.
[00:10:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
So I went to the Journey On Podcast Summit, which was held by Warwick and Robin Schiller, and they're quite big names in the natural horsemanship world and they've actually been a big part, know, changing. The way I think about horses is there's lots of overlaps with how I think about human beings and it is all tied up in, well, what people tend to call trauma. But again, I feel like the need to move away from that word now is I think it's a little overused.
I think we're all shaped by our past and it sets us up to respond or react to things as they arise in the present. And part of the work is to reflect on those patterns have been established and practicing new ways of showing up in the world. But I think through horses, I've learned to be a whole lot less judgmental.
It's a bit like the way people are more likely to view parenting these days, in that the behavior that is arising is telling you something. It's not about the horse or the child being naughty, but it's an opportunity to question what's going on for that being and what it might mean and how you might help them through whatever they're experiencing. And obviously, Becky, you've had plenty of experience in that department.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: With myself.
[00:12:05] Speaker C: Well, and little humans.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah, my little humans and their different needs. And their behaviors certainly has made me less judgmental as well. When I see even behaviors in adults, I always have a good think about where's this coming from, what's going on for that person at that time.
Because I'm fairly sure that most people don't want to go around being angry and aggressive and rude, that there is an alternative way to react or respond. And the world would be a better place if we all were allowed to get some time and space to breathe and to reset.
Probably shot and dysregulated nervous system.
[00:12:54] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's a really tough one because how we show up in the world is very much influenced by society and what society values. And I have plenty to say on that subject,
[00:13:10] Speaker C: But anyway, I don't really have a choice in that. So it's, how can we embody peace and space to breathe and all those things that we know are congruent with how we're wired? We live so far from how we're meant to be these days that's one of the biggest disconnects and heartbreaks and barriers to wellness, I think, is that modern society demands so much of us that physiologically, we're not designed to live that way. We've come so far from our hunter gatherer origins when we lived in small tribes and we're deeply connected to each other and we're focused on mutual benefit.
I don't have any great answers to that, apart from following that light and trying to recreate little pockets of that wherever possible.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that if you're trying to find those moments in time during a day to try and belong or connect to a community, to something, to someone, there is an aspect in this little ara irima five days, five ways. It's about giving your words, your time, and your presence to someone, something, your expertise or just generally your time that trying to create opportunities for connection. And you never know what your small act of kindness or your small act of helping is going to do for that person or that place.
[00:14:42] Speaker C: I was reflecting on that just the other day. Like, we never know the impact we have on people, and in some ways, it's not for us to know that's right.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's not doing it out of if I must get a thanks for this, it's here is something from me, and may you may be blessed by it.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: Yeah. I was going to say faith, actually. You show up with you bring your heart to what you do, and you just trust that things will unfold and people will be able to receive something.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: The good from that.
There's some tips here. It says, bake some morning tea for your HOA mahi your colleagues. It's a new Kupu for me.
Yes. I did bake some lovely little truffles this morning. They're well, they're little chocolate balls.
[00:15:34] Speaker C: I can verify they are delicious.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: I know and I took a beef few to school so all the kids were yahooing about that.
Write someone a thoughtful letter telling them what you appreciate about them. Now I know some of you have received emails from me and I often put little things in there about it was amazing when I saw you do this or gosh you're wonderful when you do this. And I know that's not common for people to actually say something in the emails that might highlight their vulnerability, their feelings, their love. And yeah, that was something that when I write my emails I do put a sense of what I think is, I guess, aroha or love to let people know that they're valuable.
[00:16:29] Speaker C: Well, you're sending a really clear message that they are seen. Right. That's how connection starts is I see you, I hear you.
And having that reflected back is so powerful. I think it's very easy to feel invisible in the busyness of today's world and like we're all walking around not aware of our bodies or other bodies and when we consciously choose to reflect to someone I see you, that's really profound. And I think, again, I keep coming back to awareness and mindfulness and being able to sit down and get to know who you are and what matters to you and what you value and where you want your energy to go. So it's in alignment with your values. One of my favorite definitions of suffering is living out of alignment with your values.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Perhaps people have all well experienced this that you've been either in a place or in a conversation where you're like I don't agree with that and there's this cognitive clashing but even a physical reaction to this that makes my skin crawl.
And either you choose to be in that space and not raise what your beliefs are or what your values are or you choose to walk away from it but yeah, it can be very difficult to maintain yourself when you're faced with your values being constantly challenged or crushed or ignored or devalued.
[00:17:54] Speaker C: Yeah, and I think it's really easy to fall into a kind of a state of helplessness in the midst of those kinds of challenges or just sort of overwhelming stress in general. And I've really tried to shift my focus away from thoughts and more towards actions. One of my favorite therapy models is Acceptance and Commitment therapy or known as act and it hinges on what matters to you and taking action based on your values.
One of my favorite bits is that you don't have to get into fights with yourself about whether something is true or not. So if you have a thought such as not being good enough, you don't have to try. The CBT way of doing it would be to look for evidence to support it or negate it. But the reality is the brain can find evidence of anything.
But in act you go, does this serve me? Yes. No. Well, no, it doesn't doesn't matter whether it's true or not. Can I do this thing or can I not do this thing, or am I going to blah, blah, blah. I don't have to engage in that because it doesn't serve me. It doesn't move me in the direction of my values, so I get to ignore it, and I don't have to fight with myself about whether it's true or not.
So that's been a really good tool for me, I think, because you can.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: Waste a lot of time arguing with oneself honestly or pursuing dead end paths, for sure.
[00:19:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: And it can be a waste of your infinite and finite resource.
I read a book not long ago in my seat in my pursuit of happiness.
[00:19:23] Speaker C: Did you get there?
[00:19:25] Speaker A: I'm the happiest person in Branca Close.
No. This book, I can't remember the author. I'll try and find it and pop it on my Facebook page. But the essence of it was growing your garden. And the analogy was that you plant the seed. What are the seeds that you wish to grow the greatest? What are the weeds that you need to pluck? And I really struggled with identifying what weeds are. Actually, I wrestled during the whole reading of the book, what are the weeds in my life? And I was like, can't get rid.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Of the kids or the husband?
No, but it wasn't rid of the kids. It was like, just get some time alone. And something that I needed was just to go for a walk when my husband got home, just to let me out of the house, because it was just that that being with the children all day or just not getting any headspace and then expecting that 10:00 at night is your free time. And I'm like, by then, I'm ready for sleep. So no carving out time for myself, because I value time to think, time alone, time to process. And adding that into my schedule is at the moment, I'm doing it at 05:00 A.m.. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's the only time that's peaceful in this house is between 05:00 A.m. And 06:00 A.m.. I just go to bed early, and I get up early because that is the only way I can carve out that time to do the things I need to do to stay sane.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: Yes. Needs is another thing I could talk for a long time about. I can remember the moment where I realized that I had needs, that it was okay to have them and it was okay to have them met. And this would have been within my adult life. It was sometime within the last five years. It really hit me over the head again. Don't know what to say after that. It was this big light bulb moment of I'm allowed to need things, and it's okay to put steps in place to have them met, because we all have them.
There's a great I won't go too down this rabbit hole, but you might have heard of Maslow's Hierarchy, but my preferred model of late is more of a Maslow's matrix. And again, maybe you can link the it's a very academic article, but it's a really good pyramid just to show all the needs that we have as human beings. Needs for connection, needs for individuality, needs for safety. That's the primal one.
But I think in order to prioritize what we need, it comes back to you can't give from an empty well. Right. You need to overflow from your from your cup of abundance.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:22:03] Speaker C: And we can't give from a place of lack. But I think to be it takes a lot of courage to prioritize what we need because we need to believe that we're worthy of it.
My consultants reflected back to me, no, put the stick away, as in the one you're beating yourself up with. And that became a repeated joke. And it wasn't until I went to the first compassionate healthcare conference in New Zealand oh, that was pre COVID I think it was a while back, four years ago, maybe, and Anna Friese, who's a health psychologist in Auckland, was giving a talk on this entity of mindful, self compassion. And there was something in that talk that day that really hit me and I thought, oh, I need to take this seriously. Actually, this matters.
And it's a really beautiful philosophy of it's kind of got three pillars. You've got your mindfulness or your awareness. So your ability to reflect on what processes are going on in your mind.
Kindness to self and then common humanity. So this idea that we are not alone and that when we are in suffering, our response needs to be turning towards ourself with kindness. Not to make the suffering go away, but simply because it is there.
So that was a huge turning point of realizing, oh, being kind to myself actually does matter. And I don't know if we can truly love anyone else if we don't love ourselves anyway.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: It is quite confronting to have to look at oneself. Yeah, it really is. What do you find in there?
Oh, yes. So how do we get to this space? I'm looking at this one that says take notice.
Ideas to take notice. Write three things you're grateful for. And I know this one might great people. However, we can trick, train, support our brain into creating our reality of absolutely seeing the good, doing the good, as opposed to like, it's another day, another dollar, instead of being like, here's an opportunity.
[00:24:23] Speaker C: Honestly, though, it takes so much discipline to change the way you see the world. And part of that is all of the kind of hidden beliefs in society that kind of get that we take on board without really realizing. But our brains are wired for survival, which means we're more likely to notice the negative things, which is a real pain in the butt. So it requires a lot of discipline to constantly redirect towards the positive. And that's not our fault, it's how we're wired.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah, sounds like a discipline to me.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: It gets easier though. Like anything. It's training a muscle.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Certainly the journey that I am on, it's getting better. I can manage my anxiety through what I eat because my gut health certainly affects my overall well being. And you'll hear from my coach who's going to do a podcast next week. Me, actually. He's going to tell you all about, since we're doing a healthier well being fortnight about the things we eat and how our gut relates to our overall well being and certainly making sure I drink enough water because that does make a big difference, that you're hydrated and your brain's clear.
[00:25:37] Speaker C: Honestly, it's all those really boring basic things, isn't it? Drink water, eat well, get enough sleep and I get so sick of telling myself these things. But it actually does matter.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And I wonder that those basic care units that you need to tack off in your day, how that's fallen off a lot of people's everyday skill sets or abilities, and that does create havoc within oneself. And over time, you can really get sick from not eating well or sleeping well or not drinking enough water and things like that. But that's a very non medicalized look at things.
[00:26:20] Speaker C: I think it catches up with us, doesn't it? I mean, I've certainly found that I've had all of these layers that I've not been aware of, whether they've been beliefs about self or previous unmetabolized negative events that have impacted me or they're all stored in the body somewhere. And I could again wax lyrical about gabamatam.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: We both read that book.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: Well, we many books just how much our body holds for us and it tries to send us little messages about how it's struggling and we may or may not be aware, we may or may not hear it and it might require the wheels to fall off our lives for us to really take stock. So I think about crisis very differently these days. It used to be the worst thing in the world, but actually I've come to see that crisis is a huge opportunity to do things differently and to hear that what I was doing before was not serving me and there's nothing like a good meltdown or things really feeling like they're falling apart to stop and take stock.
Because I'm looking at this list of wellness, of items of wellness and I think it's so easy to interpret it as yet another to do list, another box to tick, another thing to do. And if you don't do it, then you're not good enough or you're failing. But I think it's a mindset shift.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: I think, as opposed to ticking all your boxes.
[00:27:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
And there's this journey of, I guess awakening, if you like, of really stepping back and seeing ourselves and seeing society. And I think when you find that space of a little non attachment, I guess you realize that you do have space to show up differently.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: Yeah, that reminds me, I've just finished this short read from Eckhart Tolle Practicing the Power of Now, which my dear therapist suggested me to read as well. But when I started reading it, I was like, oh, this is heavy. However, it did get in there and yeah, I'll read a little bit out of it because it aligns with what Neves just discussed about separating yourself and that's not from society as such, but it's being that silent observer of your thoughts, your thoughts, your feelings, your actions. And it how is it that I see the world like this? How is it that I react in this way or can I respond in a different way? So old Eckhart writes in the back here buddies. Yeah, he's obviously I haven't got around to his textbook because that looked quite fat. So at the library I got the edited like the little editorial version, but still gives some good solid stuff. And in his last chapter of Transforming Illness and Suffering so of course we can sit in a space of discomfort and suffering. It is possible, but we can also move past and from it. So the power to choose. So it says that choice implies consciousness, a high degree of consciousness. So without it we don't have a choice. So choice begins that moment you disidentify from your mind and it's conditioned patterns. It's years and years of subconscious images and messages and in that moment you'll become present. And until that point you're unconscious. And it means you're compelled to think, feel and act in certain ways according to the conditioning of your mind.
So nobody chooses dysfunction, conflict or pain. No, nobody chooses insanity either. They happen because there is not enough presence in you to dissolve the past, not enough light to dispel the darkness. You are not fully here. You have not quite woken up yet. In the meantime, the conditioned mind is running your life.
I mean, it goes into a lot more depth there. But that sort of aligns with what we're discussing, how we're retraining our brain.
We're trying to be kind to ourselves because of course nobody can switch from one to another unless you're super brain. I don't know.
[00:30:31] Speaker C: No, nobody can.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: Elon Musk yeah, there's another bit that brings in you cannot truly forgive yourself. So this is in the book again or others. As long as you derive your sense of self from the past. Only through accessing the power of the now, which is your own power, can there be true forgiveness. And that renders your past powerless. And you realize deeply that nothing you ever did or that was ever done to you could touch you even in. The slightest of the radiant essence that you are.
And I guess that's kind of the essence of what Niamh and I really get stuck into about self and our questions about how we walk through this world, how we leave what's our legacy, or how we can find moments of connection and reality in our days. And it's certainly I know this sounds a bit cliche, but certainly taking time to look at the sunset and the sunrise and taking time to walk through forests and listen to the piwakawaka do their wee squeaks, barefoot walks on the beach, the best being there, being present. Because I've spent most of my life doing things while thinking about what I need to do next and never really never really getting any enjoyment or memory or anything of it. And even to the point of my wedding day when I look at the video, I was like, I do not remember that day in the slightest. I must have been highly anxious and therefore didn't lay down any good memories there.
And I said to my husband, at their ten year anniversary, we should have a renewal of vows. And he's like, Why? Because I don't remember getting married to you at all.
And that sounds a bit pathological. However, it was just the sheer level of anxiety and you just can't think when you're in fright and flight and you can't remember. So I think about that time and think, yeah, that must have been hard for my poor brain to function in that space, that everything needed to be perfect. And I'm also grateful right now that I can enjoy who I am now and I'm still me just a lot more relaxed and finding peace and being able to breathe into relaxation and finding ways to be rather than, I don't know, relentlessly do. Yeah. Be a relentlessly chaotic doer. Yeah.
[00:33:07] Speaker C: I'm still trying to make friends with peace. I don't quite trust it. I think I've been in this state of unrest and turmoil and chaos for quite some time, and when I find myself in peace, it's disconcerting because it's unfamiliar.
I'm so not used to it, and I think this isn't going to last or all of those thoughts start cropping up. And I'm really making a point of just trying to sit and breathe into it and trust that it will visit me more and more, I suppose.
[00:33:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And it will pass.
Those chaotic moments will pass that you are just walking through them.
[00:33:45] Speaker C: That was another major turning point for me, I think, was must have been back in 2021, which I think was one of the hardest blackest periods of my life. I got to the point where I couldn't make meaning out of my suffering anymore. And that's something that I find has always been a great coping strategy for me, is to know there's got to be a reason as to why I'm going through what I'm going through. It's going to be teaching me something.
My buddy Viktor Frankl and his belief that, yeah, we find meaning in suffering. I got to the point where I couldn't find any meaning in it anymore. I didn't understand why I was still in so much pain, and I had sort of given up on it ever getting better, and yet it still did.
And that gave me something. I took something from that, that no matter how black things feel, even if you can't imagine them getting changing or getting better, they still do.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Yeah, the sun still comes up the next day, and it wasn't necessarily anything I actually did.
[00:34:49] Speaker C: It was life rolled on, circumstances kept changing, and things got better, and I was held throughout that process. I'm not saying it was fun, but it certainly gave me a deeper trust and faith that things roll on and better times. Well, things are always changing, aren't they?
[00:35:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's constant, isn't it? The irony. The irony or paradoxes? What else were you talking about? Paradox.
[00:35:18] Speaker C: Oh, I love a bit of paradox.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's just finish off today because I'm sure that listeners are going, whoa, this is heavy, I've got too much to think about. You've also now going to have a library list of readings.
[00:35:29] Speaker C: Oh, we'll have to make a list.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: And action points for you.
But, yeah, the life paradox, I'll let Niamh take that away because that's her area of interest.
[00:35:39] Speaker C: Well, I was thinking when you were reading our old buddy Eckhart before, it made me start thinking about healing and also cure and this idea that as doctors, initially, we're conditioned to think that we can fix and solve and save people. And one of the reckonings I've had to go through is to actually let go of that. There are very few things that we can truly fix and cure is not often possible, but I think healing always is.
I guess that may seem a bit paradoxical, but we can sort of find a deeper sense of ourselves and connect with what matters to us and live a meaningful experience no matter what we're going through.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: I think that just really triggered something about being in the clinic. I used to be highly anxious about being a dental therapist, doing everything right, making sure I got everything. Every piece of decay had to be filled, and I was just going to fix, fix.
At this stage of my life that I've gone back into the clinic, I'm enjoying it. It's enjoyable and relaxing. I haven't put any pressure on myself to be perfect. I meet the families when they come, where they're at. We make a plan that's manageable doable over time.
I wonder that my past me would have been, I've got to get all these things done, I've got to be fast and productive. But actually, that didn't serve anyone other than my computer.
I still have to do the work, still have to do the mahi, but it's about my mindset during that time and that I'm looking for connection with the families, because that brief moment in time that I've got them there, to be able to have any chance of changing their oral health beliefs, we have to build trust. Rapport belief. Yeah. So fuck off. A knowing a tongue right there.
I want to find a space to meet them in, as opposed to striving for perfection.
[00:37:50] Speaker C: Totally. And I find that all the time in ED when I'm seeing people who've waited sometimes up to 12 hours in that waiting room, and I could go in there feeling all nervous and anxious about how they might treat me because they've had such an awful day and I could have all of that stuff going on. But actually, that doesn't serve either of us, and it doesn't serve my ability to be present and connect and show up. And I might not have any great answers, or I might not be able to offer them terribly much. But I promise them in my head that I will show up and I will listen and I will do my best to connect with where they are at and understand with what's happening for them from their perspective rather than getting carried away with my perspective.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: And I'm sure that they appreciate that, that the patients appreciate that sometimes.
[00:38:36] Speaker C: Well, I mean, that comes back to the whole it's not for us to know the impact we have on people.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:38:42] Speaker C: So I just trust. I just do my thing and I trust and I show up.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: That's what makes you wonderful.
So if you have to go to ED in the Waikato, look for Dr Niamh Hammond.
She will not only look at your broken bits, she will also show up for you as a human being, which I think that's a big complaint of general patients who go into hospital is just like nobody really talked to me or nobody actually engaged with me in a way that made me feel seen or heard or safe. Yeah. And safe. So the experiences I've had in hospital, being able to have that conversation with hello, just before you put that take some blood. Can I ask what's your name and what you're doing? And the person's like, oh, that's that.
[00:39:35] Speaker C: Moment of, oh, fellow human being, hello.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: I'm about to puncture you with a sharp needle. I'm not even going to ask you. So it's not asking too much, I think, for a quick.
[00:39:48] Speaker C: I really don't think it is.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: But a connection, it's not going to change your you don't need to have more years at university, you don't need to have any professional development. You just need to connect.
[00:39:58] Speaker C: You are a human being. You have this intrinsic ability.
If it's all right, I might just share this one beautiful moment I had in Melbourne at the Journey On Podcast Summit, actually, so I can go overseas and talk with horse related people about work and have conversations I couldn't have with my colleagues because this kind of stuff.
And this beautiful lady told me a story of her journey to becoming a mum, so the birth of her daughter and what happened afterwards. And I was chatting about work and what it looks like for me and how I do my best to try and show up. And she said to me, she really wanted to make a point that showing up as a doctor matters, and it made a huge impact on her. The people who showed up for her and those admissions carried her through, and she said, I can't tell them.
I can't tell them myself, but can I tell you? And can you receive it for them? And she had tears in her eyes. It was a big one. And I thought, oh, I really wanted to wiggle away from it because it was uncomfortable to accept these things, but I did and I breathed and I put it in my big toe. That's what I like to do with a big experience. If I need to put it in my body somewhere, but I can't deal with it, I put it in my big toe.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: It's going to take a while before it gets up to your heart.
[00:41:10] Speaker C: Exactly. But it's in my body, right? It'll work its way there. Yeah, but she said, that really matters. That stuff matters. And it was one of those moments of clarity and an encouragement to keep trying to show up the way I do, because it's not easy. It's not easy to constantly choose that and to sit with humanity, mine and other people's, but it's what matters most. And yeah, that yeah, I want to. I was really grateful that we had that corridor.
[00:41:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:39] Speaker C: It was a beautiful moment. We both had tears. Yeah.
[00:41:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. Natural human response to be able to share that and receive it and yeah, well I think we'll end there, actually, because there's nothing more profound than a moment of connection and a moment of that profound difference that those people showing up showed for that woman's life, regardless of what happened.
[00:42:06] Speaker C: And there are ripple effects, right. If someone shows up for you, you realize how important it is and you find that you want to show up for other people as well. And I think it's a much more organic process than going, right, today. I'm going to connect with someone. Just let it flow.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: Just be you. Just be you and people will love you. Yeah.
[00:42:30] Speaker B: ngā mihi for listening all the way through our podcast today.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: We hope you enjoyed the kōrero with Dr. Niamh Hammond, who shared her insights on being human and a big ngā mihi to the Clare Foundation for sponsoring The Whole Tooth Ao/ NZ podcast.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: So go well, my oral health professional, colleagues, peers and friends from us at The Whole Tooth Ao/ NZ. SPONSOR MESSAGE : Clare is a progressive philanthropic foundation that wants more for our people and our planet. Through our proactive approach, Claire invests in ways that positively impact our environment, oral, health, youth, well being and woman. To create extraordinary change. Check out Claire's website. W W W dot C-L-A-R-E dot NZ for the mahi that they are doing and supporting in Aotearoa .
