Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A(Becky Ahmadi): Kia ora and welcome to the whole Tooth, Aotearoa NZ, a podcast for oral health professionals made by oral health professionals. Here we will share the kaupapa of the oral health profession at Aotearoa, where we will seek to speak the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the truth.
The whole tooth is sponsored by The Clare Foundation (www.clare.nz) .
[00:00:25] Speaker A: Kia Ora Oral Health Professional whānau today we welcome Sara Mageed-Gale to the Whole Tooth Aotearoa/NZ. Sit back, relax and listen to Sara, an oral health therapist, tell us her story.
[00:00:42] Speaker A(BECKY): Welcome Sara, thank you for joining me today. I'm so excited to. We've already been talking for like the last 13 minutes on both of our absolute shared interests in improving oral health in Aotearoa. So welcome, Sarah. It is so wonderful to have you here on the whole tooth, Aotearoa/ NZ. Take it away. Tell us a bit about who you are and what you're up to currently.
[00:01:07] Speaker C (SARA MAJEED-GALE): Kia Ora Becky, thank you very much for having me. So I'm Sara Majeed Gale and I am an oral health therapist. I graduated in 2016 in Dunedin, which feels like a long time ago now, and I have been working across both public and private sectors and more recently I've been pursuing some public health study which has been really enjoyable. So I did a postgraduate diploma in public health in Otago, Wellington, and then I have recently, recently in July last year, started my masters in public health as well. So that's been really cool.
Across my public health study I also had a research job which was, you know, addressing oral health in the aged care sector, which was really interesting as well. So. Yeah.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Well, don't stop right there. So you're really busy. I went through that journey as well, that public health and masters. It's a painful yet rewarding journey that does get you on just a different level of thinking about how things work, why, you know, what the whys are. And I'd love to know a little bit more about some of your experiences, maybe for the listeners as an oral health therapist in the private space, but also as an oral health therapist in the public space.
[00:02:41] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So I have worked, as I said, across both. So I've always done a bit of both public and private and so forth. I mean, most people who'd be listening to this will understand that most of the time in private you're seeing adults and you're doing treatment of gum disease, managing gum disease and preventing it and amongst some other tasks as well. And in the public sector you tend to see children and we do a lot of restorative preventive care and we're the primary oral providers, or dental providers, for children in New Zealand. So it's been really cool doing a mix of the two. It gives really nice variety to see a range of different patients in private. I find it really fun talking to the patients and getting to know them and their lives.
I do find something I always found really challenging working in the private sector is the fact that we're only seeing people who can actually afford to be there, which it's fantastic that there are so many people who are really dedicated to, you know, they're maintaining good oral health, but there's obviously, excuse me, about 40% of people, as we know, who aren't able to access dental care due to the cost. And I think I found that really. I've found that really challenging throughout my career. And I know that a lot of dental professionals have that same feeling in the public sector. I've really, really enjoyed, I've had a lot of opportunities to, you know, help with health promotion events and, you know, you get to know the whnau, you get to go to different schools. And I really enjoy doing that interaction with children. It's a lot of nice energy and they're really fantastic to work with. And sometimes that can be a challenging job, which I'm sure people know, dentistry on children, but it is so rewarding. And honestly, one of my favourite parts is when some people will come and they go, oh, where do we pay? And you can just be like, it's free. It's amazing, you know? So I think that's really cool. I think the community oral health service has done a really good job at aiming to achieve equitable oral health outcomes. There's obviously a long way to go, but I think there's a lot of benefit in working and working in the public sector.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Oh, you can't. You're preaching to the converted here, Sarah. I would give my left leg to get back on that mobile in Hamilton. I love being part of the school community after having a few years off, it just gives something to my professional wairoa. It just really fills it. Just being part of the school community, being able to communicate with the family in the playground or the car park and really get a relationship going. It's not just that interaction, that 15 minutes interaction in a clinical setting where they come and go.
So, yeah, that relationship is just, I think, so important to the community oral health service. And I know that it's changed over time and that there are some wonderful documentations and memories of when we used to just work in schools and the kids would all lean in, watching from the playground and, you know, that kind of stuff is lovely stories, but obviously hasn't worked out.
[00:06:18] Speaker C: I think my favourite part of the job is actually that whakawhanaungatanga, to be honest, I think for me that's, I mean, you know, we do the work that we need to do, but my favourite part of the job isn't, you know, doing a really beautiful filling or a really good oral health instruction. It's actually the. It's just actually meeting the whānau, meeting the people, meeting the community. And, you know, you get little wins when you work with children as well because, you know, even just yesterday I had a child who, he was so nervous to get an injection and so I just distracted him while I was doing it and he didn't even end up noticing that I'd done it. And he sat up and he went, thank you. And I don't think I've ever had a child thank me after doing an injection. It was really, It was really lovely. Like, it just made my day. And, you know, I think there's just so much that relationship that you have with the community, as you said, when you're based there as well, it's so beautiful and you just kind of become part of the furniture, so. I do, yeah. I really love that. That side of the job.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I can totally relate to that. It's given me warm fuzzies in my heart.
What else we're going to chat about today. So, yeah, the whakawhānaungatanga. I think that's essential, but not everyone gets to experience it as clinicians. I know that this, and probably my dentist that I see will never listen to this. However, when I start to talk to him (I had some work done last year) about what's happening within the community. He really was set apart from it, had genuine concern and empathy for it, but really had no idea what it was like to put on numerous crowns in the day and to see the, I guess the, poor oral health that doesn't come through his chair as, yeah, the type of clientele that he will see will not be people with extremely poor oral health unless it's an emergency.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: I mean, yeah, part of the. I was working on this research project and that was with a team of people, including Murray Thompson and Moira Smith, and that was an amazing experience. And what was really interesting is just, you know, going in and seeing a lot of residents. And we were so fortunate that because it was part of the project, we were able to see residents in aged care and provide oral health advice to the staff, you know, the families. I did so many presentations on oral health, and that's advice that a lot of people don't actually have access to, especially the aging population. It's so, you know, they get to a point where there's so many expenses that they have to choose something to cut. And unfortunately, oral health is often one of them. And I think being able to provide that service as part of the project and just, you know, giving advice, talking about products, giving them products. And, you know, some people even just brushing their teeth really well, you know, and that just, it was really rewarding, but it also really indicates a gap. And unfortunately, in our oral health system, I think, and, I mean, everyone is aware of it. I think it's just who's going to try and, try and deal with it and try and fix it because it's a big job. It's been something that's been brewing for a really long time, you know?
[00:09:53] Speaker A(BECKY): Yeah, definitely. They are very vunerable population. We seem to forget as populations age, we focus a lot on youth and infancy, first thousand days. But yes, as our population ages and lives longer and is dentate, yeah, that does bring service provider shortages and issues.
[00:10:20] Speaker C (SARA): And there's so many benefits, obviously, of having good oral health. And it's kind of become this luxury, unfortunately. And I mean, I know that this is the same case in lots of different countries. It's not just new Zealand, but I think having, you know, healthcare is a luxury that's, that's an issue. It shouldn't be something that you only can pay for if you save up. And, you know, it should be something that's much more accessible than that. And I know I'm saying this, you know, preaching to the choir. And also, I think anyone who is in oral health would, you know, agree.
[00:10:54] Speaker A: Yeah, probably all my listeners would be nodding. Nodding. Yeah, we agree. We agree.
I always know this question, what are you passionate about? Well, that's really easy. Do you do anything outside of oral health? Like, do you have any hobbies or anything?
[00:11:11] Speaker C: Oh, you would think so. You would think so. I really. It's quite funny. I feel so, since I met my husband at the very beginning, I've just been doing my part time study. So he only knows me as just this oral health obsessed student. And it's just quite funny because, yeah, it does sometimes feel like I'm completely immersed in it. I do try to remove myself from the dental world quite a bit. So you know, I do like going to concerts, like, you know, baking.
Unfortunately, I have a bit of a sweet tooth, but you can edit that out if you like. But, no, I think I try and. And keep really positive. I think, actually, when I started my oral health, sorry, my public health study, I was really.
It was such a cool diploma that I did, the postgraduate diploma, because you get taught by people across different areas in public health. You know, no one was a dental background. No one had a dental background that taught me. And so I learned so much about the other areas in public health. So I think it was really cool to, I guess, open my eyes to other areas that, you know, other people are, like, as passionate about as I am about oral health. You know, I learned about stuff like housing and the determinants of health and economics. I thought that was the economic evaluation of health decisions, and I thought that was really interesting.
But, yeah, no, I do. I've been a bit of a nerd for the last four years, so.
Yeah, part time study will do that to you.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Yes. I think I lost a decade to part time study and having children.
Yeah, yeah, it was a period of your life. But I've been out of study for a while now, and I'm feeling the need to get back into it. So it's a funny one.
[00:13:06] Speaker C: I mean, people sometimes, you know, ask about if I'm doing a PhD, if I plan on doing a PhD, and at the moment I'm like, absolutely not. But I mean, you never know. You never know what could happen. I mean, my ideal, to be honest, like, because sometimes I get a lot of people also asking me, like, oh, what do you want to do when you finish your public health study? And it's really hard to decide because I. As I said, I really like working in the community. I love working with people. I don't think I could sit behind a desk, you know, all day. And so having a bit of a hybrid of being a student who sits at a desk, but also being able to go and just do my clinical work and meet all these great people, that's amazing. But I do think in the future I would see myself ideally working in, like, a service development role of some sorts or some sort of, like, operational kind of role in terms of oral health. And I think there's not a lot of oral health therapists because I guess it's a bit of a younger profession, but actually allied health, allied dental people who actually get into research compared to probably dentists. And I think I really want other people to do what I've done because, you know, it is, I mean, it's doable to work clinically and do some research and by having that experience on the ground of seeing patients working in the service and getting feedback from patients as well about how the system might be working or may not be working, I think that's really beneficial when you go into a role or a career that actually looks at trying to improve the service rather than getting somebody who maybe hasn't actually been immersed in it, but might just be smart person, you know. So I think it's really helpful having, having that experience. So yeah, I'd like to see myself end up there. I don't know how, how I got onto that topic, but yeah, no, but.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: I think that's definitely something that I think we have in common. Given that I've done those same qualifications that you're just about finished and yeah, when you come out the other end, what, where is the room for you as clinician, that hybrid clinician- innovator?
You see, because I can understand when I go back into a clinical role, I'm far busier looking at the overall picture rather than my day to day children in a clinic. I think, oh, if only I could. If only we did it this way or if only we tried it that way or what if we, you know, so there are spaces and places for different thinkers and doers and you know, I think, for yourself. Yeah, make a way for yourself, make a place for yourself. And yeah, there needs to be some movers and shakers in oral health in Aotearoa.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: It's funny, I remember when you taught a paper, you were pregnant in my first year, I think.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Your 1st year? 2014. Yeah, Pearlie was born in 2014, so I was probably pregnant 20 13-14. I was horrendously ill during that time. So I don't really remember much.
[00:16:28] Speaker C: But I just remember, I remember you being pregnant and teaching us that paper and you also, I think you were coming into our clinics as well. And I just remember thinking, oh, that's a really cool job to do. Like I always, you know, I've always looked back and gone, oh man, it would be so cool to do that combination of like the teaching at the dental school and doing that clinical stuff. And there's just, that's a really great, you know, career trajectory, I think.
And I mean it's so cool that you've done research as well because it shows people that it is doable as well that, you know, because I think I sometimes there was a period where I probably got a bit put off because I went, oh, am I smart enough for this? Like, am I going to be able to do my masters? It's like classic imposter syndrome. And the first thing I thought was like, well, if I get in and I can do it, then, like, they've allowed me to do that, you know, I deserve to be here. But also it's. It's like, you don't have to be a complete brainiac or brain box to do that sort of research. You just have to be really passionate about the topic you're writing about, which I've learned because, you know, I can struggle to write at times, but once you get really into it, you feel so passionate, you're like, hitting the keyboard, you know? So I think it's really important that people know that you don't have to be a nerd to do research.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: And certainly I'm not a big fan of numbers, so I stay away from quantitative stuff. And, you know, my husband's all up in the SPSS stuff over in his dual screen computer over there. But I wanted the stories and the narratives of the people or the therapists. And, yeah, I think what I would be interested in doing my PhD in would be the voices of the patients or the voices of the whānau who have traveled through the community or health service and since its inception. But that might have to be a bit of retrospective studies. But, yeah, I do like the qualitative studies and just getting that conversation of the people and getting that out on paper as evidence for change, because I think that's also a problem, isn't it? If we're using research and evidence for change, we don't have much.
We don't have a. Like a. Yeah, we don't have a lot of research on the topics that we're talking about.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: And, I mean, you know, New Zealand's dental service is quite unique, which is amazing. We've got a really incredible history, you know, but it's so unique that it's also, you know, can be hard to compare it to because there's all these kind of minor differences that kind of accumulate between different countries and so things end up being a bit different. But I think I agree with the qualitative stuff. I think it's so important. I'm also a qualitative person. And, I mean, that's partly because I'm a chatterbox, but partly because I really enjoy, like, getting to know people and, like, my husband always laughs at me because if I. If someone ever uses someone's name. Like if someone said Becky, I'd be like, Becky who? I must, I must know the background. Who's Becky? Tell me, tell me.
So I think that's reflective and. Yeah, and probably my research style as well, I would say, yeah, yeah.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: And being a clinician, that's relatable and interesting and, you know, interested in the person in front of them, it certainly makes that, I think that patient experience, it enhances it completely if your clinician is engaged and wanting to be part of their world for that short time.
[00:20:21] Speaker C: Yeah, it's quite funny. I mean, I was thinking about when, when I first started my post grad public health, I really thought I would end up doing some sort of research on like specifically child oral health and, you know, it's not looking great and, you know, what can we do about it and that sort of thing. But I ended up, you know, through my study, I ended up kind of looking at those overarching things that contribute to health and because, you know, that's what we learned about. And I ended up doing my research on, I'm doing my research on the workforce and how that can influence, you know, how that can eventually influence oral health outcomes. And I think it's been really interesting doing a lot of reading up about that because, you know, you can't have a good service without a strong workforce and so you can do, you know, all these things, but if you don't have the people to work there, it's really, it's not going to do much.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: And if you don't have the functional organisations either or, you know, like you said, you've got smart people in positions but people who may not have the heart or the vision for progression.
Yes, there's this multitude of factors that affect whether you have a strong workforce or not, starting right back from the recruitment process into university and, you know, the, oh, we were in that same meeting, weren't we? Yeah. You know what I'm talking about.
[00:21:55] Speaker C: Oh, yes, you were.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just being able to see that, I guess that journey from young person to doing the right or doing particular studies in high school and then moving on to being able to do health sciences or straight into Bachelor of oral health or Bachelor of health Sciences, oral Health, depending on which end of the town you're at.
But yeah, it's being able to see that whole journey and how can we create that journey to be more robust but also for a clinician to pop out the other end and be assured that their position in the workforce is strong and useful as opposed to strong and dictated.
[00:22:44] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And I think so what I'm going to do in my research is I'm going to be interviewing, hopefully, key decision makers and key personnel in the oral health or public health, but honing in on oral health space about how we can strengthen the oral health therapist workforce in the public service just because of the stats showing that people are shifting to private over the years. And, I mean, it's really, it's, you know, from one end, it's really great that there's the variety, but on the other end, you know, money is one contributing factor, but there's also other factors that will sway people to work in either sector. And I think that's really important to consider. And so I'm really keen to see what people have to say. I'm yet to start that interviews, but I think, you know, the ability to express, you know, culture and do things in a way that's not one size fits all, I think if they were able to continue to do that and adapt that and try and keep things really bit more flexible so that it's not a rigid structure for our patients, it's like the people who work there are relaxed and they're happy to be there and happy to express the culture and, you know, build those relationships. I think even things like that can make it a really great place. And I have to say I've been really fortunate in the communal health service that I work in. They've been really supportive of me trying to build relationships so, you know, with, you know, communities that maybe we haven't really been able to reach out to.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: So recently you starred in the media, Sarah, about, you got this special award from. I don't even know who it's from, actually, but I do remember your beautiful smiling face thinking like, goodness, that's prestigious. Could you tell us a bit about that award, please?
[00:24:52] Speaker C: So, yes, I do get a bit shy talking about it, but I will share. So I managed to engage with Kurakaupapa in our area that our community or health service was serving. And there was a little bit of a, I don't want to say a broken relationship, but there was a little bit of a disconnect between getting the oral health outcomes that we were trying to achieve for Māori and also things like making the service accessible and approachable place as well. And so basically what I did was I was feeling a little bit confused. I went, oh, I really want us to engage with this group because we really need to get the dental van in there. And I don't you know, it'd be great to try and work with them and see what we need to do. And so I think it was really great. So we had, you know, our whole team was really helpful and supportive, and I approached the principal of that Kura and just talked to him and got to know him, and we've become very friendly, which is cool, and he's great. And basically, we just got to know each other, and I asked him, okay, well, you know, what do we. What should we do? It'd be great if we could come in here and deliver some oral health services at the kura. And also, we want to make our clinic more approachable, more accessible. And so we just talked about what we could do to try and improve our oral health service for the tamariki at that school at the kura. Sorry. And it was really cool. I was really well supported by the team and the hub and my team leader and our service manager and that sort of thing. And so, basically, what came of the end of it was that we were able to get into the kura. We adapted the way we kind of did our oral health services at the schools like we normally have. And it worked really well. We were able to, you know, in the morning, would go to the Karakia, and it was really beautiful. Nice way to, just such a nice way to start the day as well. And it felt like we were really kind of part of the school community as well. And we actually started to try and, you know, because it's a kurakaupapa, it's really important that we try and keep speaking te reo māori, you know, as much as we can. But we knew that we didn't have anyone in our service, unfortunately, who at that time, actually, I should say now we have, but who spoke te reo. And so I explained to the principal, like, we don't have anyone who speaks fluent te reo. And we know that this is a really important part of the tikanga at the kura. So what can we do? And now, since then, we've been able to do some te reo classes through te whatau ora, which is fantastic. And, you know, the kaimahi at the kura have helped me with improving my te reo and other people as well. And so it's been really cool to try and, you know, use that, and it just makes a huge difference.
And so, you know, for the tamariki to be, they just, you know, it was creating a more culturally safe environment.
And also, you know, if we are going into their space, you know, we should be listening to them. And I think this goes for, for every community that we work with. And, you know, it's about the patient, it's not about how we do things, it's actually about how they want things to be done. And it's. Yeah, it's a really important part of our job and it's really easy because clinicians are so busy, to fall into a bit of a, you know, similar way of doing things across, you know, different situations or when they're seeing different individuals. But actually, if we can listen to what the people want and work with them to develop a service that meets their needs, then, you know, we can go for a much longer way and hopefully improve oral health outcomes. So, yeah, so basically, you know, supported the building of a relationship with them and that was really. Yeah, it was a really lovely award to receive and it was a huge team effort and, yeah, it was quite a surprise actually, to get that.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: Well, that's wonderful. What was the award called?
[00:29:35] Speaker C: The public services commendation for excellence.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: There you go. Oh, well be proud of that. Public services commendation for excellence.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a, you know, because I know there are many ways to create relationship, but that authenticity and just having one kōrero at a time towards the relationship.
Yeah, it's so easy when you're like, we need to get that bus in there. We need to get that sorted. These are our objectives, these are expectations as opposed to we are on.We actually want to create that relationship before we are going to do the things that we would like to do.
[00:30:28] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think that was actually one of the first things that they said to me when I just rocked up to the school and I just said, hi, I'm from the dental service and, you know, I got to know them and, you know, we. It was really cool because at the end they said, oh, it actually means a lot to talk to someone. Kanohi ki te kanohi. Which is face to face. And I think that in this world in general, we do a lot of things through email and through calling and actually it removes us, it's distance us socially in a way.
I mean, there's all these telephone consults that you can have with your GP and stuff, but I still. I need to see them face to face. And I think it's, it's, yeah, it makes you more human, it creates more of a relationship and there's more of a connection there. And so when they said that, it clicked to me that I thought, oh, so maybe this is one of the kind of, it might seem like not a big thing to do, which is just going in and talking someone face to face. But, you know, some people don't like replying to really long emails and some people would rather just talk to someone. And I think that's a really important thing to remember is, you know, and some people are the other way around. They might want to receive all the information in, you know, a written email and they might not want to see someone, but, you know, everyone's different. And so I thought that was for me from my cultural background as well. I think I really, it resonated with me that I like that human interaction, that connection. And we were so much more on the same page because we got to know each other so much better when we were in front of each other.
And I think that's been, I hope that's been really beneficial. I mean, I'm meeting the principal, so this will be my fourth year knowing him, this year, I think, and I'm meeting him, you know, soon to be. I asked him for some feedback on how the school visits have been going and, you know, what we can do differently and that sort of thing. And I think, you know, achieving equity is very difficult and I think that we need to. It's a constant process. It's not like, okay, tick, we've done this, you know, okay, we've got the van in there. Cool. That's done. It's like, no, it's something we have to really continue to work through and reflect on as well because that's what equity is, is it's like you're trying to make something more sustainable for groups who are disadvantaged, you know, as well. So I think it's, yeah, it's been really a really cool thing to do. And I feel really, really lucky because I was, I was very well supported along the way from my, you know, from the team I work with. And that was really nice because I was probably being a little bit, you know, it was really haphazard. I'd go, oh, I'm gonna go visit the kura after work today or this morning. And then I just kind of.
It was really cool to just be able to say, well, this is how we should be doing it based on the interactions I've had and for them to go, okay, that sounds good. And if that's what needs to be done. And that was really cool because I didn't feel like there was them trying to stop me from doing it.
[00:34:00] Speaker A: Now that sounds wonderful because if you're, if you're meeting the needs of the population, you know, that is equity. To be able to know what your community needs and then provide that service accordingly. That is a beautiful story.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: It's relationship. And if you don't have relationship, it's not going to work. There's two things that I think are highlighted for me in this conversation is as a clinician, being able to express your individuality and express yourself culturally, your personality, your beliefs, yourself, and also being able to adapt and be culturally safe when you are seeing someone. I mean, this is different if you're in a fixed clinic, because you've kind of create that culture of the fixed clinic. It's got its own culture completely anyway. But being able to be free and safe to be yourself in that space, but also let your patients and your whānau be free to be themselves in your space as well, to give them that safety or that. Okay, because definitely this might be rambling, but that raises an issue that I've been thinking about a lot, and that's for parents feelings. Feeling safe enough to disclose that their child has needs. And that could be sensory needs or intellectual needs or whatever, something that they might struggle in their space with the lights and the noise and the touch and etcetera. And one of the things I think that allowing people to feel safe in your space, but also expressing who you are and what you believe in, is that you want to create a safe space for your patients and saying like, oh, yeah, here we're breastfeeding friendly. We're neurodiverse friendly. You just tell us what you need and we'll work with you. If it means that we have to sit under the oak tree, sit under the oak tree for an examination. And then parents are like, oh, okay.
[00:36:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it really moves a barrier, doesn't it? And I think something I really like have really also trained myself to do, I think, which can, you know, can be really easy to forget to do, is actually going, okay, so how do you feel about this treatment plan? And, you know, are you happy with this? With this, you know, for your child, for instance, to be referred to the hospital, how do you feel about that and actually getting that feedback from them and going? Because sometimes it's really easy to go, oh, my God, mouthful of decay, that pre hospital. But actually, that's really stressful for people to deal with. And so I think I've taught myself to be like, okay, talk to the parents and say, but how do you feel about that? Here are the alternative options. This is why I think it might be the better path to go down, but actually taking that time to communicate with them and hearing where their brain is at, because we don't know where their brain is at. Like, they might, you know, some parents might have a fear of the hospital or, you know, so it's really important for us to try talk through everything as well with them and communicate and go, how's this going to work for you? I think that's really important, and I think a lot of people do that, which is fantastic. But as I said, sometimes it takes a bit of, you know, training yourself to ask those sorts of questions.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Having, you know, the role models or the workplace to be able to provide that service where, yeah, you mentioned relaxed, relaxed clinician or free to be yourself. And I wonder, is that something that's a challenge for clinicians and in any service that they're in, are they relaxed? I know there was something on dental anxiety and not dental anxiety for the patient. It was anxiety for the clinician. The other day, I saw something pop up and I was like, yeah, I think that's a real barrier or a real thing for clinicians to not be able to be free to be themselves and to be relaxed in their clinical space. But that's another whole cup of tea.
We're back on the oral health workforce conversation.
Yes, Sarah, I'll summarise a little bit over those, you know, those key points that you've to be able to think of ways to create relationship, no matter what aspect you're heading towards, whether it's with your teammates, your workmates, your clients, your patients, it's about the relationship that one kōrero at a time. And, yeah, you're a successful woman, and I'm super proud of your passion for research, because we need more research, more of us doing research on ourselves, because there's just not enough of that and there's not enough positive, you know, sort of information around the amazing things that dental therapists, oral health therapists, allied oral health have been doing.
[00:39:32] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely, yeah, I know. I really appreciate having this time to chat with you. It's really cool to get some of that stuff out there because I think, as I said, I think there's a lot of people who work in our service who are just amazing. That's why they're there. They're doing that job to help people.
And I think it would be so great if we had more of those voices producing stuff that can inform decisions, producing work that can help Te Whatu Ora or even private practices to come up with strategies in doing things so that we're actually providing good or able to enabling good oral health outcomes as well.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: And so, Sarah, just to finish off, just for our listeners and for the interest, if anyone was wanting to do their postgraduate study, what's that pathway like costs, enrolment? What's your process look like, if you don't mind me asking?
[00:40:36] Speaker C: So I really liked doing mine part time, so I did a postgraduate diploma and I could do that because I'd done that Bachelor of oral health.
So basically you have to have done some sort of undergrad. It doesn't have to be necessarily health related, but you have to have done an undergrad. And then I got into the postgraduate diploma in public health through Otago, Wellington, but they offer it in different cities as well and I just did one paper at a time. So the cost, I think, was maybe just under two grand per paper, maybe $1,400 per paper, and I was able to get it through study link, which was really good. So studylink still paid for the papers. And actually each year Te Whatu Ora also releases some kind of funding that you can apply for up to a certain amount. And so I was able to get some support from te wha to order to pay for one or two of my papers along the way, which was really helpful.
So yeah, I did the postgraduate diploma over the space of about two years and that was part time because you do eight papers, but there is an option to do the certificate, which I think is four papers, so you could do it unless and then you can do it full time over the space of a year and then that was a prerequisite. Doing that postgraduate diploma was a prerequisite for me doing the masters. So as we did Bachelor of oral health, I couldn't do an honours or anything like that. And so they, they really urge people to do that postgraduate diploma before doing the masters. And what was funny about that was I was actually like, oh, I, you know, I think I did pretty well in undergrad. I wonder if I should just go straight into the masters. And now I'm like, thank God I didn't. But it was honestly such a good learning experience doing that diploma, and it really prepares you for research. So now I'm doing my masters is a thesis form and so it's really self directed. And I did a couple of research papers in my diploma, which really, I could not have, you know, gotten to this point. Without having done those papers and also worked on my writing across all my other papers, as well. It's really good practice, so. Yeah. And for my masters, it's all getting covered through studylink. Well covered for my future self when I pay it back to Studylink.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a means to an end that you want to move forward, and, you know, it's. It's invaluable. The education that you receive, it pops up in really surprising ways later in life. Be like that chapter on policy I wrote. Now I get it.
[00:43:31] Speaker C: Yes, I know. It's funny when you realize later, you're like, oh, that's why. You know. So, I mean, um, I'm also really lucky I got some support from the New Zealand Oral Health Association as well to help pay my course fees for my masters, but the masters. Yeah, it's. You kind of pay monthly. You pay per month, but I've paid for the whole year through my student loan. But there's obviously so many scholarships and stuff available, but I think there's more available for people who choose to do full time, which I think, you know, when you're in healthcare, dropping clinical work for that long would be, you know, you kind of feel so removed from it. So it's been really nice doing a hybrid, but when you study part time, it's on your brain full time. Just remember that.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:23] Speaker C: You probably know that because you were having children, doing your Masters and teaching clinical.
[00:44:28] Speaker A: I don't know how I did it.
[00:44:29] Speaker C: I don't know.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Don't know. I remember my masters. I was 37 weeks pregnant. I'd finished it. I wrote the discussion, like, two weeks, but it shows. Um, and we were waddling up to the admissions office and being like, oh, dumping it. And then my baby came two weeks later, so, yeah, that was an achievement. It was an achievement. And, um.
Yeah, it's anyone who's thinking about doing research, like, the rewards far outweigh the stress of, you know, the stress of actually doing it. And your supervisors. Supervisors are amazing people who help you through all those things. Like, what is this? What does this mean?
You know? What. What am I saying? Yeah, so I'm so lucky.
[00:45:18] Speaker C: I just. They just have to put up with me being so intense and asking him so many questions and trying to be. It's my type a personality going, is this okay? Am I. Am I doing well? You know, and they're so supportive, so I'm really, really lucky. Yeah.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I'll thank you, Sara, for your time and your energy, and I know you're just going to do even more amazing things. So let's touch base in a year on on this podcast and say, you know, where are you at? And then you can tell us all about your findings. That would be great.
[00:45:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:49] Speaker A: Hopefully you can keep doing the good mahi in Aotearoa. And I know I would speak for all oral health professionals that, you're amazing. Ngā mihi.
[00:46:01] Speaker C: Ngā mihi, it's been amazing to chat with you and I really. Yeah, I hope, I hope that was helpful and interesting.
[00:46:10] Speaker B: The Whole Tooth Aotearoa NZ is sponsored by the Clare foundation.
The Clare foundation is a progressive philanthropic organisation that wants more for our people and our planet.
They're proactively acting in ways to positively influence our environment, oral health, youth, wellbeing and women to create extraordinary change. You can find them at www. clare. NZ. That's clear. C L A R E
Kia ora and thanks for listening all the way through to our podcast today, from us at The Whole Tooth Aotearoa/NZ, Ka kite ano.
